In the second part of this EffTD Interview series interview with Scott Belsky (Behance, author of Making Ideas Happen), we dig as deep as I’m willing to go when it comes to the new book and actually seeing ideas through to fruition. The first part of the interview is here; the second part is, well, here…
ME
You talk about a lot of things in this book, and what I will say is that if I was a creative person – and let me be clear, I’m not – I’d say that this book has done more for my understanding of productivity for a creative person than GTD did…but I had to read GTD to even begin to grasp your concepts. Kudos to you, sir. But remember, I’m not a creative type so forget I said all that.
SB
(laughs)
ME
While reading a few things caught my eyes, like Insecurity Work…which is what you basically call checking your web stats and other things that help you feel better about what you’re supposed to be doing while you stop yourself from doing that stuff because of it. Or something to that effect. But it’s still work, so shouldn’t it be done?SB
Here’s the thing. If you think about it, it wasn’t all that long ago that all of that data – all that stuff – that we use to keep track wasn’t readily available to us. Now, of course in this digital age everything is at our fingertips. You can search Twitter to see in real time what people are saying about your blog or your brand; you can see in Google Analytics what your web stats are like up to the moment and this has created this new problem where any of us who are doing these new creative things and always have this inherent insecurity – “Is it working? Are people still coming? Are people still caring?” – we end up using all of these mechanisms to constantly check. It’s not really moving the ball forward when you do this. So Insecurity Work is stuff that we do that (a) has no intended outcome; (b) does not move the ball forward in any way and; (c) is quick enough that you can do it multiple times without realizing it. This is the problem. A lot of us are filling time with Insecurity Work and it’s not work.
ME
There’s the Dreamer, the Doer and the Incrementalist. You use the example of Frank as a Dreamer because he gets sidetracked by all that he wants to do without actually seeing anything through to completion. But isn’t he really just preparing for his eventual goal of becoming a contractor?
SB
(laughs) I don’t know if he would end up making a good contractor then. He may be a fine carpenter or woodworker but he’d someone to keep him on deadline, do up a budget and all of that stuff. I mean the point is when I was putting together the book I’d put everyone I’d meet into 3 categories: the Doer who doesn’t really think of anything new but argues to stay on track with what’s current and get it done. Then you have the Dreamer who’s always on that idea-to-idea-to-idea syndrome we talked about earlier, they’re the visionaries. Then you have these others known as the Incremantalists who go from Doer to Dreamer and back again. You’d think that’s the ideal – to be able to think of something and then do it and think of something else and do it again. But that’s the problem. They have too much going on. They do such a wide variety of things they end up looking back and wishing they’d focused on just one thing or worked with a Doer who’d kept me grounded I’d have 300 stores instead of just one. So the point of that is that there is not one best thing to be. You need to work with others. No idea happens in isolation – at least from what I’ve found.
ME
You say that you should both kill and share ideas liberally. Is that so you can point the finger as someone else and can go on with your idea-killing spree or is it a metaphor for recent health care reform in your country? Or is it something else entirely?
SB
Let me start with sharing ideas liberally because that might be a little weird for some people. Some may ask why they should share their ideas with others when it’s still an idea in progress or not fully realized yet. Others say they don’t want to share their ideas because it’s a secret – someone will steal it – so they’re not going to share it until it’s ready. Well, on the latter one I say that if your idea is so easily replicated chances are it’s not a good idea to begin with. To those on the former side, I would argue that the more you share your ideas, the more likely you are to actually complete them. A great example of this is Chris Anderson (editor of WIRED Magazine) who is also a prolific author (The Long Tail, Free) and he says that every time he has a new idea for a book or an article for the magazine he’ll just share it liberally. He’ll put it up on his blog – prematurely – and people will tear it apart, ignore it or engage with it. When he does this he’s doing a few things. He’s engaging a community from the start – which is important because we all need people to buy books…I especially know that right now…(laughs). Secondly, if he shares a great idea and he gets another idea that appeals to him a bit more at the time, those who he shared it with are reminding him about the idea he shared. They ask him about it. So this force of accountability and the feedback he gets is sometimes all the difference between an idea happening and not. So you’ve got to share ideas liberally – and sometimes you’ve got to kill them. If the idea has no traction behind it or is just getting you off track you have to know when to throw in the towel.
ME
While I agree in the importance of collaboration in that it further eventualizes what is being created and you get to do less work in the process, I see your take differs…
SB
This is the communal forces part I talk about in the book. As I said, I don’t think ideas happen in isolation. Collaboration is key. Another thing that really helps make ideas happen along the same lines is competition. A lot us like to ignore or put our heads in the sand when we find someone is competing or doing something similar to what we’re doing. Actually what I’ve found is that is a fire. It’s a motivator. I mention a story in the book about a photographer who took a picture of himself every morning and did nothing with it. Day in and day out he did this. It was this side project for him that no real end or ambition. But one day he was stumbling around blog and found another photographer that had been doing the same thing – but she was going to make a project out of it. Then he realized that he had to do something himself. That ended up being the catalyst for him to make a YouTube video of all of these photographs in sequence with a musical soundtrack which actually became one of the most viewed videos of all time. It propelled his career as a photographer and he became quite well known as a result. It wasn’t collaboration – it was competition – that made this idea transpire.
ME
Kind of like what happened to me. I look at other productivity systems – brought my own to the mix. Now it is admired by others. Or perhaps I mean admonished. I tend to confuse the two. Now, I’ve interviewed TED speakers before, Carl Honoré to name the one, and you and I have both been to TED-like conferences. You’ve been to actual TED and I’ve been to unactual TEDx. What role does TED play in helping make ideas happen?
SB
What I love about TED is that it is about spreading ideas. TED Tends to bring a lot of people together who have in one way or another executed these ideas and in many cases have done so again and again. You know, I go to a lot of conferences in the creative world and one of hte things that frustrates me about them is that it’s all about inspiration and creativity. I sometimes wonder if people are at the conference to get away from making ideas happen. It could be a very effective procrastination tool – to go to another conference and come up with more ideas rather than execute the ones they’re currently working on. One thing that I like about TED is that there’s always an intention among the people that are there; they have ideas they are working on. They are thinking about ways to leverage this community of people, to spread their ideas more effectively. To really make them happen even more than they would on their own. So I really like that notion of TED and it’s something we’ve tried to emulate with The 99 Percent Conference – we want to make sure people come with intention. You can’t come to the conference expecting to just get inspiration because, well, you’re not going to. We’re not talking about what inspires us, we’re talking about how we execute. That’s the nuance I appreciate about TED.
Me
I think anyone who wants to execute could get a head start by changing their name to Chris Anderson. That’d be a good first move.
SB
(laughs) You’re right – Chris Anderson is also the name of the guy who founded TED.
ME
About “frequency” and being in your optimal one, I listen to satellite radio and audiobooks (unless they aren’t available, kind sir!) so am I out of luck on this whole deal?
SB
First of all, I’m happy that you got that far in the book because frequency theory comes up late. That’s awesome to hear.
ME
I appreciate that you appreciate that I actually read the book.
SB
Now what I talk about with frequency is this concept that we all operate at our own frequency. Think about your favorite FM radio station when you were growing up for a moment. Mine in Boston was 94.5, for example. So when I was driving around, 94.7 had some static and 95.0 was nothing. But 94.5 was perfect and it sounded great. The bottom line is that we all operate at different frequencies and the funny, interesting thing among those – especially in the creative world with these bold ideas that we’re trying to engage other people with – is we’re so obsessed with sticking to our own frequency that we don’t recognize that others operate at different ones. So in some ways we have to tune in. But the question is how do you tune in without really compromising what some would call artistic integrity or others would call morals behind the work. So in this part of the book I talk a little bit about what’s involved with making sure people can connect to what your message is because it’s your responsibility to make them do it. This, in fact, does go back to productivity because if you’re trying to do something – with a team or otherwise – you are projecting at a frequency. You have to start thinking about how you’ll tune in to people across the spectrum otherwise you’ll be preaching to a lot of, well, nobody.
ME
On leadership, which you say is important and I agree especially when I’m leading. When I am, I’m an eventual one and my advice to become a leader would be to start a methodology – or for lack of a better word, cult – lead it and one person follows you, ipso-facto, you’re a leader. Like Don Quixote as a leader and his follower, what’s his name – um, Robin. Out of curiosity, what do you propose makes one a leader? Is being a leader like being a farmer and your team are either livestock, crops or both?
SB
Leadership is a huge piece. First of all, attrition – people leaving teams in the creative world is abysmal. You know, a lot of creative teams disband and oftentimes the reason is that the team is assembled by the defacto leader who is often the person who thought of the idea in the first place. Why is that a problem? Well, of course, once you have other people on your team you end up with their opinions, their insights, their views on how things should be done. If you obsess on doing things exactly the way you would have, then no one is ever going to feel like they own it except for you. If that happens, – if no one else feels like they own the idea – then you have a really big problem because no one else is going to stay up late at night figuring out how to make that idea happen. Ultimately it’s that perspiration that makes the difference. Great leaders come with various approaches and skills sets….and I touch on them in the book as well.
ME
Well, we don’t want to give everything away that’s in the book but there is something about a Purple Santa project. All I’ve ever heard of is Purple Jesus. And it is a delicious beverage.
SB
(laughs) People are going to have to get the book to learn about The Purple Santa Experiment.
You can pick up a copy of Making Ideas Happen at Amazon or at fine booksellers everywhere…and I’d suggest you do it. Eventually, of course. But do it nonetheless.
In the interim, check out the Facebook Fan page for the recipe to a Purple Jesus.
{ 1 trackback }